Join me as I chat to International Bestselling author, Award Winning Businesswoman, and perhaps the greatest accolade of all – my mentor for the past THREE YEARS (!), Sarah Jolley-Jarvis.

We talk about defining your own version of wealth, having balance, and what it’s like to run a business with three children under five.

How does Sarah stay sane and look after herself with so many different roles to fulfill?

If you want to read Sarah’s bestselling book, Selling Without Sleaze, you can grab it here.

You can also listen to Sarah’s excellent podcast here.

Or join her FREE like-minded community of business people all defining their own version of wealth

And if you’d like to achieve some balance with your business and your health, come join us in the Dojo.

Transcript
Hayley:

Hi, and welcome to the Fit For Business podcast with me Hayley field, also known as the Food Ninja. I'm here to chat with business owners about their health and how it impacts their business and vice versa.

Hayley:

And to share with you all the latest tools, tips and strategies that are working for myself and my clients, hope you enjoy the episode.

Hayley:

Hello, welcome to the next episode of the Fit For Business podcast with me Hayley field, also known as the Food Ninja. And today I'm very excited, because we have on this episode, an international best selling author, and award winning business woman. But I think probably the most prestigious of all of these accolades - my mentor for the past three years, like a prison sentence!

Sarah JJ:

I should have some sort of like certificate

Hayley:

Should I make you an award? Do you want a medal like years of service, every time you can clock another year off, we'll add a different colour medal or something might be a good idea.

Hayley:

So those of you who don't already know this is Sarah jolly Jarvis, thank you so much for doing this. Like you don't have to talk to me enough, you thought you might as well add an extra hour! Thank you so much for doing this.

Hayley:

I've got lots of exciting stuff for us to talk about. Because obviously you have an exciting new offer, which aligns with a lot of the stuff I do. But we'll save that for later. So for now, can you tell the listeners who might not know who you are?

Hayley:

Can you give us a little bit of background of how you started your entrepreneurial journey and how you've gone from where you were to where you are now.

Sarah JJ:

Okay, well, thank you for having me. It's nice. It's nice to be on other people's podcasts. So I started off in the corporate world, and medical sales, pharmaceutical sales, and I kind of worked my way up product management using the sales team as my kind of route to market.

Sarah JJ:

They were an element of my marketing approach, not all of the entire process. And I really enjoyed on the way to that journey. And then within that role I was helping and supporting and training the sales team to sell particular products, generate more income on their territories.

Sarah JJ:

So that's kind of where I started my kind of sales training element of what I do, then I had a baby and I realised that I wasn't gonna be able to do my job as well as I had done and have a family. So despite the fact I was adamant, I was gonna go back full time, and it wasn't gonna make any changes to me.

Sarah JJ:

And then seven weeks later, I'm there walking around a nursery thinking there's absolutely no way she's coming to this place all the time. The lady actually said to me, (such a bad sales pitch), She said to me that the reason why they've got the little roundtables they all sit around is because for the ones which are their full time, it's the only family meals that they have all week!

Hayley:

Oh!

Sarah JJ:

Don't tell a new mother that like you're basically abandoning your child and it's not going to have a taste of a family meal. If they don't do it was very interesting. Proper, it was a proper trigger. And I was like, There's no way I'm doing that.

Sarah JJ:

So then it was like, Okay, well, what do I want to look at doing? Martin was already in the online world, my husband doing lead generation. And so I thought, well, actually, these people seem to be really good at what they do.

Sarah JJ:

But I just keep hearing about all these people that are really good at what they do. But what they do isn't getting themselves out there. And they're frustrated that they know they're better than their competition, but their competitors, marketing is just better than that. And that's why they're getting the demand and that person isn't, you know, there's so many you don't want to be best kept secret in your business. And that's the worst you can be.

Sarah JJ:

And so it was like well, actually, there's a kind of a need here. And that's kind of all got started. Really it was I had a beta group and I went from there. I've run different challenges and different programmes, which was how you started with me

Hayley:ix Weeks to Succces, in April:Sarah JJ:

So yeah, so it was it was a while ago. And so obviously, this isn't the entire sort of scenario from setting up the business on maternity leave to now has been dotted with time off to have another two children. I managed to fit around. Like literally I fitted my book around the birth of my child, which was yeah, it was a hectic time, but I'm not having any more babies. So that's what that's good news for the population.

Sarah JJ:

But it means that now I'm able to really concentrate which has been really nice knowing that I'm not going off again, at some point, taking time out. I'm able to kind of feel like I'm focusing a lot more. And obviously the kids Clara's in school, Ethan starts school in September

Hayley:

Oh my god.

Sarah JJ:

I know he's just a little August baby, I was like, you're not really ready. So it's kind of you, I'm getting that position where actually I'm able to focus a lot more, and everything's a lot more, as much as with three kids under five is, it's a lot more predictable. So yeah.

Hayley:

So obviously, the position that you're in now running a business or businesses is very different to how you started. And do you think having children? Has that changed your priorities? And your ambitions or dreams or what kind of business you thought you wanted? Does that change now that you've had children,

Sarah JJ:

I think because obviously, the catalyst for starting my own business and actually going all in on my own business was was Clara.

Sarah JJ:

Originally, we came back from travelling and we did a bit of, we had a business then as a startup, and it wasn't able to sustain us. And so I went off into the business world aiming at six months. And then four years later, I was kind of forced out of that with with being on maternity leave.

Sarah JJ:

And I think that's the thing is, you can easily get sucked into the corporate world. It's a regular salary, they were developing me they were putting time into me, I really enjoyed my job, would I have stayed there and just kept sort of running my own business as a bit of a pipe dream? Yeah, I think so. Because it's comfortable. And I was getting stuff out of it. I wasn't frustrated, I wasn't unhappy.

Sarah JJ:

I regularly talk to people who are like, Oh, I don't like it I want out of here. And but that wasn't the case with me. So you know, I was in a really good position, they were developing me, it kind of came to fruition later that the national sales management role was coming up. So my old boss's role, there was two of us being put into different sort of developmental roles within the business, I went into the marketing side, which to manage the sales team, you kind of need, the other guy went into a team leader role. And so it was very clear that the potential pathway was that I could end up with that job, which is a really decent job, you know, at the age of like, 34.

Sarah JJ:

But it just wasn't the balance I wanted. And I think so the shape of the business has evolved, I think I've probably got a little bit more ambitious with the business than I had originally, having had the kids and had a taste of actually, you know, we're really fortunate with the mentors we've worked with, and continue to work with the sort of environments we've put ourselves in, you know, the potential that's out there.

Sarah JJ:

And so, it's a bit tempting, I think, really, so I am one of those people, I kind of do want it all, you know, I don't want to compromise, I spent money on myself, and developing my skills, I don't want to waste them all, by kind of taking myself out the running, which I think you can easily do. And you know, for some people, that's great. But for me, that just wasn't where I get my fulfilment you know,

Sarah JJ:

carpet games all day long! I'm a much better mum, when I think you mentioned a quote for me the other day on my podcast,

Hayley:

I was listening, but it was so funny. I was listening to your podcast the other day while I was out for a walk. And obviously, you were talking about, you know, kids and stuff like that. You just said, because, you know, let's be honest, children aren't the most positive members of the team. That made me laugh so much, because it's right, isn't it? Like your family is a team but you know, you can't rely on those team members cuz they're not very, you know, just JFDI

Sarah JJ:

No, they're really not. Like the thing is you can do so much for them. Like if you ever want to be kind of bought back down to earth, hanging around with three kids like what Clara's five now Isaac's, like 19 months, like the feedback is, if someone's not crying, then they're all asleep.

Sarah JJ:

You know, like, there's always something going on, there's always somebody who's not happy with something. And it's just the way that they're very emotional, little bundles, but it's quite, it's a lot to be getting, you're putting in too much effort and to be only getting, you know, they'll say the nice odd thing. And obviously, that seems to I don't know how, but it just wipes out the memory of all the other bad things that's happened.

Hayley:

It's an evolutionary thing!

Sarah JJ:

Any of the ratio of like, one to 50 You'd be not be happy with, but the children have, that's fine. But yeah, so it's kind of, it's nice for me, I am good at my job, I enjoy my job. And it can kind of remind me that I'm doing a normal job most of the time. Even if the feedback from the team isn't so necessarily always that

Hayley:

Obviously, you've got your business and the kids and all that kind of stuff. So one thing I always get from you is you always seem to be doing something and you're always really busy and stuff.

Hayley:

Obviously because you've run your own business you can make that work around you because I think we're almost opposite in you know, I know sometimes you talk to me about oh, you recorded your podcast episode in the evening and stuff.

Hayley:

I can't work in the evening I'm like useless after like 4pm so I will get up at like 530 instead and do it that way. Have you learned that over the years that actually no because I think a lot of business owners obviously set up their business because they think I'm going to design my life exactly as I want it. I'm going to work exactly as I want

Hayley:

And so many times I say to my clients like, well, if you don't like working those hours, why don't you change them? Or if you're always tired in the evenings, why don't you get up earlier and work in the morning? And they're just like, it's a revelation like I've given them permission to not work nine to five. So did it take you a while to figure out that actually, you could do that? And or do you think maybe having a kid just forced that issue as well in that you just have to work wherever you can.

Sarah JJ:

I think there is an element of that. I'm also like, going back to school and uni, I was the one who worked into the evenings. I'm quite happy. I mean, I think my normal wakeup time when I was like late teens, early 20s would be, if I didn't have to be anywhere would be about 930 10 o'clock.

Sarah JJ:

Yeah, you know, but I work into, like, the early hours, absolutely fine. And I like that and the quietness at night. I don't know it, I find it more motivation. I like that environment. Whereas the quietness in the morning, because everyone's asleep, I'm just really annoyed that I'm not asleep, to work the other way around. Oh, they've gone to bed. Oh, that's fine. You know, like I'm on it. I'm amazing. They're still in bed. Oh, poor me, my life's terrible, great psychology.

Sarah JJ:

It's kind of evolved. So my work start off with I was working two days a week when I had Clara. And then Clara and Ethan there's 16 months between them. And so I was hardly into running my business before I was off. And then Martin was ill, etc, etc.

Sarah JJ:

So it was very, it's always been very, I like to think that I like consistency, but I never seem to create it. So that makes me wonder how much do you like it, Sarah, but I do enjoy working of an evening, I think I do enjoy my own time, particularly now, with the family life being so busy.

Sarah JJ:

I mean, it's quite nice to have your own space and do a bit of work. I do go to the gym. So since September, getting a knock in the door of nearly a year. Now, I've been going to the gym in the morning before work on Sundays. And that was kind of working. But it turned out Martin and I weren't in the office for because he doesn't want early mornings, we weren't in the office for that long together.

Sarah JJ:

So decisions were being strung out over a few days. So I've mixed it up. And on a Tuesday, I work from home because of client calls. And so I've got that morning. So I'll go to the gym, and I'll come home. So I do the school run. And then I have my own time. Even when I do the school run I still walk the dog before going to the office.

Sarah JJ:

So that kind of gives me that time to kind of break between being a parent and being at work. And that really works for me regular hours and tracking my hours, I track my time because I track my time on projects so that I know how long things take. And because I make the team do it so that you know not going to do it yourself you can't expect other people to do it. So it's not like I don't work the hours I work the hours I needed to get the work done. There is always work to do, but it's a prioritising it,

Hayley:

And how do you think you are with? You know, because obviously, your lifestyle is super busy. And you've got your podcasts and the business and everything? What is your downtime?

Hayley:

You know, how do you have these sort of recovery activities in terms of mental recovery? Because like you say, you you perform a lot of roles. So you're a wife, a Mum, a business owner, a mentor, like all of those things, how do you switch off from any or all of those things and maintain that? So you must have good cognitive flexibility, because you're able to switch quickly between those things. But that takes quite a lot of brain power. So how do you give your brain a rest? What do you do,

Sarah JJ:

I'm quite lucky, having worked with a few mindset people, that what people are aspiring to when they do meditation and stuff, I can quite quickly switch my brain off, which I thought was a thing that was not great. And if I was cleverer, then my brain would be going all the time. And it's only since I've been around people whose brains are always going that I've realised that actually that is not a blessing. And everyone's trying to quiet them down. Whereas, like regularly Martin will be like 'what you're thinking?' Absolutely nothing.

Hayley:

You're actually like the most Zen person we know

Sarah JJ:

Before I even knew zen existed. I was just like, because I remember I went to my ex boyfriend. So I was like, his brain was always going and I was like God, he's so much cleverer than me, like his brains always going. And if my brain was going more I could do so much more. And but actually, it's really quite nice. I mean my main thing used to be, you know, it's not always been plain sailing. I've lost I've lost balance in my life and everything else but my main things were horse riding and running, neither of which I'm really doing at the moment I'm running. I did run last night for the first time in probably this year for any length of time.

Hayley:

Is that because you're sulking because you've tried how many ballots have you tried to get into for

14:50

eight years running eight consecutive years come on London Marathon, and I've tried all sorts. I've tried putting myself in the slow groups like with people dressed up as animals I've tried everything, I cannot get into that damn race, which is really annoying because the Australia, the Sydney marathon, you literally just signed up I was I have a place. Now I just turned up not wanting to do all the training and then I can turn up.

Sarah JJ:

And yeah, what was more painful was I missed the time. At the time, I lost my six minutes, I would have automatically got into the London with my Sydney time if I'd been six minutes quicker. But I didn't know. I was really ungrateful when somebody pointed out.

Sarah JJ:

But it's um, but yeah, I've got bad shins. So I've been working on those, I think. And they used to really give me that timeout where I wasn't thinking of stuff or I was just listening to music. Now it's more walking the dog. And yeah, going to the gym doing exercise, I'll go and sit in a bubble pool. And I'll sit there with a drink of water thinking about nothing quite nice, bubbling away.

Sarah JJ:

So I'm quite lucky, I can switch off and I it's chaotic when the kids are all around and everything's going on. And I don't mind chaos. Whereas I think some people it can really grind them down. I don't mind it. And it feels quite nice. Like we're very lucky. The kids are sleep, they go to bed at seven o'clock, they get up at 630. That's just what happens though. I'm really lucky. I've got that downtime. So I spend the evenings I'll meet friends. I'll go to the gym. So yeah, or I'll do a bit of work. I do really enjoy work. Good. But it's a bit like, Oh, bless you.

Hayley:

But yeah, I mean, it's important, isn't it to have that that balance? Because that I think is what everyone's kind of striving to get and to, you know, have their version of what they, you know, believe that their success should look like?

Sarah JJ:

I think for me, the biggest shock was having children and the impact that it has on you. And I'm not taking away from the guys but it you know, like it has an impact on your body.

Sarah JJ:

They see like nobody the expectation with guys like the dads, they dropped the kids off at school. They're impressed. Like they literally are impressed if the kids turn up fully dressed, it's like a well done, they expect their expectation of the dads is zero.

Sarah JJ:

Whereas the mums, it's like, oh, you know, you need to tell your mommy this this. And it's kind of with the guys, it's theirs to win. And with the mums, it's yours to lose. Yeah, as far as people's like, opinion on how well you're doing. It's a lot of pressure on that. And I think because you've been pregnant and you've been, I mean, let's face it, they basically just treat you like a vessel to the baby. And it's all about the baby. When I used to turn up for my appointments, I was under consultant and so I wouldn't even I wouldn't even get Hello. They just been like have you bought your sample with you? And I'm like, Yeah,

Hayley:

A bit like The Handmaid's Tale.

Sarah JJ:

I haven't watched that, because somebody told me that it probably freaked me out. So I didn't bother. But apparently it's quite Yeah, yeah. You're just a vessel, and then you have them. And then they're the priority and another priority for so long. And you're feeding them and, so it's so easy to lose yourself.

Sarah JJ:

And that's something that I've been aware of for myself, and also friends that you know, you can you can really lose yourself in this role. And you're beating yourself up that you're not doing well enough. And you don't know these things that I don't know why everyone thinks you should, because everything else comes with a manual, like you even take a driving test, but you just get given a baby.

Sarah JJ:

And apparently, then we're just supposed to use our instincts. And I'm wondering, my instincts aren't so good. No one's tested them. And so it's quite tricky to kind of carve out what you are. And particularly for me, my running I kept up with but my riding, due to time, and also then my horse no longer being with me meant that it wasn't something that I could do on a regular basis.

Sarah JJ:

So it's like, your behaviours change. So it's still finding time for you and things that you enjoy the fun bits, you know, I used to indulge ourselves in fun all the time. And then you have children, so it becomes about them rather than about you. And it's like, when did you last have fun? And I think you can kind of forget that that's kind of part of why you're here.

Sarah JJ:

And so then it's like, well, I couldn't do it, I was pregnant. And so there's all these the sacrifices that you kind of put away who you are. And so finding those and for me, it's been about like God, I've taken up knitting again, I've done all sorts of stuff. Because it's just finding those things. I quite liked it. I mean, that scarf has been undone and redone. I chose a very bad, the amount of holes in it, but you kind of you take up things that you potentially did years and years ago, as pastimes, because you're tethered to the house of an evening. I mean, one of you can go out, but both of you can't without getting a babysitter.

Hayley:

Yeah, definitely. And I think that maybe is an advantage to having your own business because it is a lot more fun than most jobs is just kind of employed, you're like, that's another chore that you've got to do. Whereas when it's your own business and you're a bit more excited about it, you do get a lot of fulfilment from that, don't you?

Sarah JJ:

Yeah. And also the creativity side, you know, you come up with a good idea and no one's blocking you going, Oh, we don't have the budget for that or you can't do this. We can't do that. It's like if you can make it happen, you can do it. I felt I really enjoys my corporate job, but I was always aware of you're in that cog in a bigger organisation.

Sarah JJ:

And you know, there's a lot of scenarios, it's like, don't step out that box, you know, like, if you turned up in a random meeting, because you were just inquisitive over what was going on, they'd be like you out. So you know, you haven't got that that flexibility, you are bound by expectations of this little role, you know, stay in your box. And so even when they're developing you, they want to develop you in their way. And so that you're kind of being moulded. And you're kind of responding to that environment, rather than creating your own environment.

Hayley:

Yeah, talking about kind of not being constrained by just doing one thing and whatever. Lots of people will know you from writing your book, Selling Without Sleaze, and being a sales lady, if we can say that these days.

20:53

I just go with sales mentor. And so the coach thing.

Hayley:

Yeah. So when I first started with you, so obviously, we got introduced by Dan, but he didn't actually tell me, so you were interested in working with me, weren't you? And we got on a sales call. And I did what I thought was a sales call with someone who I didn't actually know that was your job at the time.

Hayley:

And then a little bit mortified when we'd had that conversation. And I was actually at Dan's house, and he's sort of popped his head round and said, Oh, you might want to have a word with Sarah because she does sales and you're a bit shit.

Hayley:

Oh, my God, I've just been talking to this woman and giving her my amazing like sales conversation from shitty scripts that I've learned from online guru, you are being a sales expert. So I know that when I first started, that's kind of what you helped me with wasn't it was to be better at sales, because like most business owners, I loved what I did. But I absolutely fucking hated that bit where you had to have it like, I was always mortified, I used to hide behind direct messages.

Hayley:

So I used to get people to email me was the only way that you could do an inquiry because I was terrified of like, having a conversation with someone, obviously, you helped me a lot with that. But then kind of the other stuff that you've helped me with is really evolved, hasn't it? So I definitely wouldn't say that you are my sales mentor, or, you know, the person who helps me with my sales, because you've helped me with like products and pricing and visibility, and, you know, a fair dose of counselling and a lot of mindset stuff, all sorts of things.

Hayley:

And, you know, helped me go from I think the first month that I was working with you, I think I was earning around eight 900 pounds, I don't actually know how I was sustaining myself with my business. So we've gone from that to having regular five figure months. So you know, we've looked at my whole business and everything.

Hayley:

So guess that's a very long winded way of saying that, I think you've also found with other clients that you've started helping them with maybe sales, but then it's evolved. So I know, you've now got a new offer, which is helping people sort of create their own version of wealth, because not everyone wants to measure their success by whether they have a six figure business. So sorry, that's a very long winded way of me saying you want to tell us a bit about that.

Sarah JJ:

One of the heated discussions of in our house, with the business hat on is around, probably actually without a business hat on is still hands down, just quoting six figures and aspirational figures.

Sarah JJ:

Because from a marketing point of view, they want to make it quantitative. And I'm like, but it's not about that number. And I think for a lot of people, it switches off, I remember reading a couple of very successful women's autobiographies and being like, if that's what it takes, I don't want it.

Sarah JJ:

And I think that's the thing is, is that we are the guys who want this number, but why do you want the number I've worked with women who wanted a particular number, each one of them they've got to that number, and they haven't felt the fulfilment they were expecting because actually a number doesn't have fulfilment, so where I can I banish the numbers off my any sort of sales page or anything else.

Sarah JJ:

And I'm going, No, they don't want that. But it's not specific. And I was like, what it is to that, but we're working on it. But yeah, I mean, the thing is, is that sales is an element of I mean, it's a massive element of a business. And you know, I still talk around the fact that if you don't have sales coming in, you don't have a business you have an expensive hobby. And so you know, it's a lifeline to a business, it's really important.

Sarah JJ:

The problem is, is the people I really enjoy working with. And the people who I wrote the book for, are people who don't really want to sell. And until they have that realisation that actually I have to sell in order to sustain my business, get my business in front of people, I can really help, they're not open to that messaging, then I have, you know, cohort of people who are open to that, but they're not aware that the awareness isn't there, as to what I need to do is I need to work on my sales, and I want to work on myself.

Sarah JJ:

So that you see, that's quite a few steps. And so what I've found is, is that the people I've ended up working with and really enjoying working with have been the people that we've actually got on to a sales call, because we've proactively reached out when they bought the book. So from the clients that I've worked with, since the book launch, like a year ago, all but one had no intention of contacting me to work with me, and one was thinking about it. So thinking about it and doing two different things.

Sarah JJ:

But having another conversation, and we talk around their business and their business pains, they felt that I could really help them. Despite the fact that my positioning was for sales, there are very few sales conversations that I have with people, I don't remember the last time someone sent me a recording for sales, it's the bigger picture. And people if anything want to avoid the painful thing.

Sarah JJ:

I mean, it's like exercise and it's like eating properly. It's like, oh, there's a bit painful, do I really want to be doing this, if you do not just give me a quick pill, because you're not just giving me a real way of not doing that. And it's like, I can't but you know, do they want to face that reality are they willing to, and so to get in front of the people that I want to work with, and also make an offer that it's more scalable, and it's more able to be automated everything else front end wise, I wanted to do something that was more around the whole of the business.

Sarah JJ:

People come to me because their business is in a certain place, and they wanted to be somewhere different. They want to create their version of wealth and their version of wealth, despite the fact of not being very specific is their thing.

Sarah JJ:

So for some people, they want to take a step back, they want to work fewer hours, they want to get somebody else in instead of them. For other people, they want a consistent revenue for other people they want to grow, they want to evolve into another area, some people aren't happy with what they're selling currently, or how they're doing it.

Sarah JJ:

And so it's looking at the whole picture as a whole, you know, I've done sessions and trainings on working three days a week to share with people how I do stuff, but it comes down to the same thing that you've kind of got sort of three different pillars from your business, you've got the working in it, the implementation, you've got the sales kind of growth side of stuff, and then you've got the actual, you know, supporting the business as an entity. And when you increase sales, one of the other two gets out of kilter. Because you have to do the implementation. And then before you know it, you're busy implementing and then you're not doing the growth side of promotion side. And so you get the peaks and troughs in your sales because Oh, she was busy there. Oh, he wasn't busy that carries on.

Sarah JJ:

So you know, it's looking at the bigger picture. So for people who want to learn sales techniques, and they want to learn that sales approach and switch on to the fact that sales is the answer to the issues they're struggling with in their business, that's great for those which are looking to make changes in their business and looking at the bigger picture with the business and where they want to take it. They know that it's not where they want it to be. That's when the women's fits in, specifically women that I'm targeting with that, because they're the ones that I get the situation I understand them, I've worked with them, I enjoy them, the guys tend to be the ones more switched on around sales.

Sarah JJ:

And so there's the kind of people that fit into the Selling Without Sleaze kind of option. So the two things that I'm running, but I really enjoy getting involved with people's businesses and helping them to make that change and create that life thereafter how the formula came around.

Hayley:

I'm quite excited about it, because obviously, I work with business owners, and I'm constantly saying to them, like, you get to define your own version of success, you know, your health is should be one of those measures of your success. Because does it matter if you have a six figure business if you are too tired and strung out and exhausted, to enjoy any anything about it? Or you're so stressed that you don't actually enjoy running your business anymore? is like, does that mean it's successful? Exactly.

Sarah JJ:

It puts you in an early grave. shortening your life due to the level of stress and the the amount of, you know, overeating and lack of exercise, you can end up with all sorts of complications medically. I mean, it's like so great, you've got this this business but you don't have any you have the money. But money can't undo the impact that it's had

Hayley:

I'm super passionate about, you know, the people I work with because I'm always saying to them, there is a different way to build a business. You don't have to sacrifice your health to have a successful business. It can go hand in hand and the same with you know, your relationships. Your relationships can be healthy and you can have a successful business and you can be healthy and it's this kind of, you know, people think it's so unrealistic that oh, you can't have it all? Well, you can, it's just that you can't work 70 hours to get it and have all of the other things, you have to make compromises. But you know, everyone can make a really good living and have the free time they want and you know, whatever else they want.

Sarah JJ:

And I think sometimes you've got a question like, if you're working 70 hour weeks, how productive are you in these weeks? I was talking to a client earlier today. And I was like, I don't believe you're working full time. And like, what were you doing with that extra time. And it's like, I don't want you to stuff it full of other business activities, is the fact that you have that time and you like the life you've got.

Sarah JJ:

And then you know, you're not wanting to increase capacity or anything else, just consciously take that time off. But it's like, the amount of people have said to me, I'm a slave to my business, I've got them to track their time. And before you know it, they're off to the gym at lunchtime, they're having like lunches, long lunches, oh, I had to go to this one day, I had to get to that. And it's like, you know, in a four week period, you actually you weren't in for like, three of those days or something. And well, that would be holidays in a job, that would be days of holiday.

Sarah JJ:

And it's like, just be aware of it be like actually, this is pretty amazing that I can take off a day a week, and it doesn't, it's fine. No one's telling me, I can't do it. But just be conscious of it. Don't tell yourself my life's terrible. I'm a slave to my business. Be aware and live in that moment of like, actually, I'm doing all right here, I'm having this nice time off. It might be hard work when you're there. But when you're not there, you can really switch off you can really appreciate I'm getting some time out.

Hayley:

And I think actually, it was on the episode with Martin, where Martin came on the other week he was talking about if you really are working 70 or 80 hours in your business, then why don't you change your business model? Because it's clearly not working for you if that's not what you want to do.

Hayley:

But I think you're right, you know, that honesty in that reframing? Because I think a lot of people are really afraid to say, You know what, I only actually work properly three days a week in my business, because they think, especially I think in the online world, that unless you are all about the hustle and grind, I work it's like 20 hour days for my launch, like, oh, you're a shit business owner, because you take three days off a week? Well, why can't we say that? Actually, I choose to take those three days off, and I'm happy with my level of income, why do we all have to pretend that we want more in that way.

Sarah JJ:

I don't know if you've ever done it, but you write out a list of the things you'd buy if you won the lottery or something like that. Or if, you know, like you generated X amount per month. And it's like, actually, you've got a few bits that you'd be wanting to buy. But then actually, you would struggle to in your current frame to spend more than that.

Sarah JJ:

And it's like, so initially you ramp up and you increase your expenditure and everything else to take up that new income. You're kind of like what are you doing it for. I think that's the thing is your business, then the day is like you get into staff. And when you get into staff, you have so many more commitments. Yeah. Everyone's always grow, grow, grow. And it's like, why everyone's not very happy to sit in a job, a corporate job for years. And it's the same job. Like no one's telling them grow, grow, grow. But it's like this is expectation. It's like rats up a drain pipe. But we've all got to keep pushing. And we're all pushing and scrambling. But why?

Hayley:

I think it's a bit like, you know, when someone says, I want to have a six pack, and you're like, why do you want a six pack? Or yeah, just you know, that represents fitness, or that represents health. And then when I say to people, do you realise that means that you know, if you're male like you, that's a loss of libido, for you, like a really low body fat, for example. So you can give up your sex life to have a six pack is that a good?

Hayley:

You know, is that a good trade off also, you're going to be really miserable all the time, because you won't be able to eat very much. And you know, all your relationships will probably suffer because you'll be at the gym all the time. So actually, before you just trot out, I want a six pack or I want a six figure business have you actually thought? What are the consequences of achieving your goals? And I say that quite a lot to people, you know, when they say, Oh, this is my goal. Brilliant. So these are all the positives with your goal, like what what are the consequences of leaving your goal? Because no one ever thinks about

Sarah JJ:

Exactly. It's the balance thing again, isn't it? It's like it's a balance. It's like so when you're doing that you're putting something else out of kilter. And it's like, is it worth it? And I think that's the thing, because I remember reading a book by Dennis, the publishing guy, and it was like how to be rich. And you know, he talked around the sacrifices that he made and he was like, I should have stopped earlier. I should have stopped at 43 million.

Sarah JJ:

He was like when he died his estate was 500 million and he was like, I should have stopped at 43 because after that It made very little difference. And he was like, I'm sat in my Caribbean home. And it's amazing. It's like that, like, I didn't need that extra amount of money, it didn't make me happy.

Sarah JJ:

And I think that's the thing is, is you begin to see the sacrifices and then potentially by then it's a little bit late. And it's like, people are always grow the business, grow the business while you're growing the business. So I can take money from it, I can have it in a position where it's generating me this and it's like, you could be generating money from it. Now you don't have to keep piling it all back in for this growth thing, you could be looking at taking money from it now. And then actually, you're healthily growing rather than just going all in not paying yourself on end, etc, etc.

Hayley:

The same with health goals, why people always want have these time sensitive goals. And I'm like, well just know, if you want to be a certain size, or wear a certain dress or whatever. Why are you putting a time limit on it? Same with your business? Like, why if you want to make a million pounds, like why do you have to do it in the next three months? Why can't you do it in a way that you actually enjoy doing it, enjoy the process, as well as getting the result?

Sarah JJ:

I think sometimes it's like a rite of passage thing, you know, people feel like, I don't deserve this. And I think it can come back to that expectation that oh, you know, everyone tells the stories of it being hardship and everything else. And it's like, you know, and you do have people at the other end of the scale coming through, you're generally they're talking about passive income and things like that, who were going actually, it's really simple. And I hardly ever do any work. And I think, you know, probably the happy medium is the middle ground, I think that you can get a sense of fulfilment and enjoyment from your work, you don't want to be doing something you just like, just because you're chasing the money.

Sarah JJ:

And you might as well dedicate that time to it, you know, the whole three things that people need in their life. And it's like, you know, one of them is to have a purpose thing to do when it's like, actually, I think that's a good framework, the amount of people I've met, who've really struggled when they've retired to have that lack of structure needs doing on a particular day.

Sarah JJ:

And I don't think that, you know, it's good for people's mental health in general good to have that structure in something that you're getting fulfilment from, and something that you're putting back into the world around you, which is making an impact. But I think it is really interesting that people seem to think they have to go all in really hard at it. And I think that's the thing with a lot of my clients is that and that's why I like working with women is because we can't do that. Like we can't pull an all nighter at the office, and everything else, partly because I don't want to, but partly because like the entire family unit would fall apart because no one knows what. And so like, you know, you need, you want to be around you need, you're needed. And so you know, you don't want that level of sacrifice.

Sarah JJ:

And I think for the clients that I've worked with, even the ones that have been super ambitious, that they've want still wanted balance, it's been the pull the all nighter kind of stuff. Whereas I think, guys, I think maybe it's attached more to the thing. It's more of an ego thing. And, you know, they've got to put themselves through this, in order to get ourselves in that position.

Hayley:

Before I started working with you, I'd tentatively gone down this other route of, you know, where I see a lot of people or other people have ended up where they've been told, you know, you have to scale your business, you basically just become, or this is what I was nearly persuaded to do become basically a macro coach, where you know, you let people check in with you for like, five minutes a week you check, they've hit their macros, you know, you send them a quick message back. And that way you can deal with, like, 50 clients, and then you can post your fucking stripe statement online every month and go, Oh, my God, look, I've had 200 subscriptions. And I think well, how well are you serving those clients?

Hayley:

Definitely, from my experience, I know most people who are looking for health coaches have food issues, they have emotional issues, they have all sorts of like mental health, mindset, all of that kind of stuff. And you know, you are giving those people five minutes of your time per week, because you've got so many of them to deal with. But and I remember having this conversation with one of those types of people and he was said to me, well, that's how you scale your business. That's how you have these five figure months, blah, blah, blah. So now I'm always feel really smug that I've managed to do that, that I actually doing anything like that. And with only having sort of six to eight clients.

Sarah JJ:

Well, I had a client the other day, he said to me, he was like, Oh, we're thinking of increasing our product range, because we've always been around top end high end quality, and I was like, has that changed? And he was like, Well, no. And I was like, so what's the change? And he was like, oh, adding in lower priced options, which and I was like, Are they still as good quality? And he was like, well, not really. And I was like so you're Do you feel like if you do that you'll be selling yourself out? And he was like, Yeah, and I was like, just don't do it.

Sarah JJ:

And I think that's the thing is is that one of my clients said to me the other day she was like, You know what you really care like we're on a group thing. Just kind of like one person just burst through. Yeah, like I do. And I do you know, like I do, I do have a randomly I suppose, but I do like think Oh, thoughts will come up as client stuff. And they'll be like in the shower or something. And it's like, I'm not thinking of my client, I'm thinking about business in the shower.

Sarah JJ:

But then I said to you, I was thinking about you in the shower. And then I think, God, that sounds weird. And then I was like, and then I changed it to a thought came to me in the shower. And then I was just like, this isn't helping just stop with where you were. I was thinking about this, stop with the geography.

Sarah JJ:

But I do. Like, for me, I really like it. Because you've got the opportunity to get in and influence and ask questions on so many different companies. It's like, tinkering and it's amazing

Hayley:

If you are a coach or a mentor of any description, how can you not care? Like, how can you do your job if you don't care about it? And, you know also it's a privilege that the, you know, I always think of that, you know, from my point of view, these people have trusted me with their health. And it's quite often so I, you know, the entanglement up in their brains and all that, like, that was like a lot of responsibility. And it is a privilege to help those people. So why wouldn't you care? I just don't get this whole industry. It's a whole industry of people, isn't it? Don't give a shit. It's so weird.

Sarah JJ:

Well, that was the thing is when I came onto the online world, I was like these people. I remember saying to Martin, I was like, all these people's claims. I was like, they were all unsubstantiated. I was like, there's no evidence because obviously, I you know, I came from UK pharmacueticals, which is, you know, everything, like, you can't even underline papers to point them in the direction of key things like it's, it's very, it's just so regulated. And so I was very much like, I can't believe that this person can claim these things. And that was kind of part of my shock. And the way that people used to sell they used to, like, put people up on like, stand up, if you care about your business, and then it's like, sit down if you're not prepared to pay and it's like, right, okay, so now I feel like always, thing Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Hayley:

Regardless, just, you know, run to the back of the room right now with your chequebook.

Sarah JJ:

Why because are we on fire, you know, like, the thing is then you're just going to get people who aren't suitable, they're not going to get the results. And I think that's my thought process on these things. You don't want people working in your business working with you in your business. If they're not going to get you the results, what you're after isn't the transaction, it's that testimonial at the end.

Sarah JJ:

It's like anyone can give you money, but then you're not going to get repeat money if you're not getting these testimonials coming from these people raving about you. And that's that's where people kind of fall short. It's very short sighted, but it's kind of what people do. But I just can't imagine doing my job like and when I was in sales, I used to be like, if I couldn't believe in a product, I wouldn't sell it. And I had products in my portfolio that I didn't talk about because I wasn't comfortable that they were the best ones. And so I made up my sales figures on the ones that were good enough because I was passionate about it. And it came through most of the time they didn't mind if other products weren't doing so well because you were doing better in the other areas. But I was had to at the end of the day you know it's your It's you It's your name that you want to protect. You don't want like you know, I want people think and sell, sell sell me anything?

Hayley:

Yeah, yeah.

Sarah JJ:

Put it on that patient, you'll be fine. How many times are they gonna listen before they think oh she'll tell me to put that on anybody? It's just not worth it.

Hayley:

No. Your new offer. You talked about which is it like a mentorship?

Sarah JJ:

Yeah, so there is one to one, but it's mostly group. So people coming in, I'm going to in the next couple of weeks launch a learn along with me for the first one. And then after that most of the content will be pre recorded. They'll have checking sessions.

Sarah JJ:

I'm adamant. You can't help people unless I talk to them about their specific business, having an onboarding, understanding their business and then being able to ask those questions and give advice based on their particular business scenario is, is what provides the value to my clients.

Sarah JJ:

Anyone can buy a digital course but if you are able to take that information and relate to your business confidently, you'd only need how many courses in the world? 6% Digital courses get completed.

Sarah JJ:

I just don't want them people again are in it. Even people that you know we deal with and work with from a mentoring point of view are like well, they want to buy it let them and I'm like no, like I'm I want the results. Like I don't want to just sell it because the thing is, is over time people are like oh yeah, bought that course. And I know people who've bought 10 grand courses and haven't actually done them

Hayley:

I think 've really realised as well because obviously I've got my membership site now and it's got courses and stuff in it. But I recently obviously did the Fuck Your Fat Up course. And I realised with all of these courses I want have like a cohort so that you can actually talk people through this stuff. Because I do think it's not responsible. And I'm sure lots of people do it. And I'm sure lots of people do get value out of courses that they buy, but I just don't understand how you can have a proper impact on someone. And again, I suppose it comes down to this actually giving a shit whether somebody gets anything out of it. But I don't think you can have an impact on people by just selling them hundreds of courses all the time. And for that reason, maybe I'll never be rich

Sarah JJ:that I don't want hundreds of:Sarah JJ:

And like you can see on the dashboard, that element of them have actually done anything. To make changes, you kind of have to meet people where they're at. And it's not about just the money, it's about actually having an impact and a positive impact and helping people create businesses, they reckon 70% of businesses go out of existence within the first three years. And it's like, scary. If you could change that figure, if you could help people to learn from it. If you could be in a position where you're preventing that from happening, then that's really nice privileged place to be. And that would be that's kind of we want to be which isn't with something somebody purchases with no intention of ever, ever using.

Sarah JJ:

Awesome. So I'm excited to see when is your new product launching?

Sarah JJ:

Well, the we haven't got a specific date, but I'm putting out the option for joining me on the Learn along, I think that'd be like the week of the 20th. I think that goes out. So I get to learn along with me. So we're doing sort of three weeks, and then having a couple of weeks off, I'm going on holiday, but I'm wanting to fit it so that they can consolidate and do action whilst I'm away. And then we'll put the action when we come back. So that's kind of how I'm wanting to position it.

Hayley:

My final question that I always ask everybody, now that you are a seasoned business owner, and entrepreneur, what advice would you give someone who's just starting out in business, or the most valuable bit of advice to help them achieve that balance? You know, because you have run multiple businesses, your husband runs businesses, you've got three kids under five, like how would you stay sane and look after yourself? Like, what's the what's the best bit of advice you could give someone just starting out?

Sarah JJ:

I think it would be to understand your market and what's going on if you offer the right thing in a format that can work for you like is it sustainable, like you might not be starting with the with the offering that you can you can scale or step away from. But if it can evolve into that, I think sometimes people get themselves into a situation where it's like, I'm generating money, I'm generating money, but it's taking up so much of my time and trading my time for money all the time. And it's like maybe you'll be doing that to start with.

Sarah JJ:

But if you can make I have, like I've made it so that people can do digital elements of it on their own. So you're not having to be customer facing all the time. If it's production, how long would it be before you could actually get somebody else producing that product? Or could you get them starting to produce that product, like the number of successful producers that I've met who've never touched the production of their product, because they got it outsourced from the beginning.

Sarah JJ:

And I think that's the thing is looking, am I going to be wanting to do this activity in 6-12 months time, you can take the painful bet. But you can get out of balance and you can get all business focus, but you can't do it for a long period of time. So you've got a maximum kind of six months of being in those trenches and it consuming you for you're gonna end up resenting it and so plan for that and plan for like different way Mark has really hasn't done this by this point. What am I going to do? Because I had a conversation with people this week over I've got this business and actually, it's not where I want it to be and I'm really unhappy and it's like, they're they are at the end of their tether. They are like it either works now or I'm done. And you don't want to get that point.

Hayley:

Good advice. Because, you knownthat's when things like your health start to suffer. Because you've ended up in that one, you know, like you say in the trenches for just far too long. And this self perpetuating, you know, getting busy and you know, not having time for any of the other stuff. So, good advice. Good advice.

Hayley:

Thank you so much for you can also listen to Sarah's podcast I'm gonna put a link to it in the show notes lots of handy business tips in there and I will also put a link to your selling without sleaze book which is on Amazon and yeah we'll put a link to your socials as well so people know where to find you and so they can look at look out for your new offer

Sarah JJ:

Yeah, well that'll be yeah first into the into the group Facebook group will be the first one of course,

Sarah JJ:

oh, yes free Facebook group. I'm in the Facebook group as well. So joining thank you and thank you everyone for listening and I will be back next week with another solo episode. So until then, take care of yourself.

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